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 Post subject: LumaFusion and ProRes.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:11 am 
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Hi.

I'm new to LumaFusion and have been doing many tests with it over the last few days. I've noticed it will play ProRes on M1 Mac but won't on A series or M1 iPad Pro.

My assumption is that this is because LumaFusion is an iOS application and is governed by the restrictions of iOS compared to MacOS. I'm unaware of any specific hardware differences between M1 iPad and M1 Mac that would allow for ProRes compatibility, hence my assumption that it's an operating system difference/limitation.

If iOS becomes natively compatible with ProRes in the future, which a number of YouTube channels are suggesting will happen with the next iPhone, presumably due to iOS 15 and not specific hardware on the next iPhone's SoC. In that instance, would LumaFusion on iOS automatically be compatible with ProRes if ProRes was a feature of the operating system? I'm assuming it would as it's already ProRes compatible on MacOS, which suggests that LumaFusion doesn't need its own bespoke codec for ProRes decoding and will use what's available at the operating system level.

Cheers,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:48 pm 
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A lot of assumptions in there ...

Mainly good ones though

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Quote:
A lot of assumptions in there ...

Mainly good ones though
Hi Dave.

Where would I find the answers to such questions and assumptions?

I’m preparing some videos for YouTube and am trying to be as thorough as possible with my information about LumaFusion. I’ve had a look around the website and done some forum searches but can’t seem to find certain specific technical information.

Cheers,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:59 am 
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Lots of questions for the developers Dave ...

... if you were one would you give the info out before anything is released officially?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:57 am 
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Quote:
Lots of questions for the developers Dave ...

... if you were one would you give the info out before anything is released officially?
Hi Dave, thanks for the response.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking for trade secrets to be divulged, I was just asking for confirmation on what LumaFusion already does and why certain differences between operating systems are the way they are. To be clear. LumaFusion already recognises ProRes as a codec source for decoding on MacOS but not on iOS, my questions were in relation to that difference and if those differences are due to OS or hardware.

My thinking is that the difference is because LumaFusion utilises system/OS codecs, hence it's ability to recognise/decode ProRes on MacOS. The natural train of thought after that point was to once again assume that if iOS had changes that allowed for ProRes as a system/OS based codec then LumaFusion would automatically utilise ProRes on iOS, just as it does on MacOS.

I understand that a developer isn't going to give out information publicly on features or functionality before they are officially released but I wasn't asking for that. I've asked in another thread about how to contact the developer team.

As I've already mentioned, I'm making YouTube videos about LumaFusion and am just trying to be as thorough as possible with the information about it.

Cheers,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:34 am 
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I'm also hoping for better video support in the future. In one of the Q&As the team from Lumafusion was talking about Proxy Media which might come in the future. And sure, if iOS natively support ProRes, I would hope that LumaFusion will support it too.

But the whole support of different codecs is this a big mystery for me. There are apps out there (like Infuse or VLC) that can play all those media without any hick-ups, even though they seems to decode the media on the fly.

Even simple movies file like from a DJI Mavic Pro or the Osmo Action are causing problems with the playback when editing. I have to run "Optimise and Consolidate" a lot. And I'm not starting to talks about the best quality movie files I record with my Fuji X-T3.

Even tough I really like LumaFusion and the way editing with it works, I still think that there are some essentials missing...

So let's cross out fingers, that iOS 15 might bring some surprising new features and performance boosts.

Just my 2 cents....

Carsten


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:34 am 
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Hi Carsten

I agree 100% with what you say about VLC, but VLC does not let you edit 4k videos etc

So would it be better that you could edit 1 track of 4k video in every format on an iPhone 4 maybe? I'm not having a go at you with that comment

Simple movies from a Mavic Pro or DJI Osmo (I have both) often need optimise and consolidate because they are not in a format that is 100% IOS compatible, so I'm with you 100% on that one too

'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one' - was it Spock that said that?

Fingers crossed that IOS 15 brings us some benefits and it shouldn't be too far away now just be advised that features will appear 'when they are ready' so let's not expect lots of changes overnight

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:15 am 
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Quote:
I'm also hoping for better video support in the future. In one of the Q&As the team from Lumafusion was talking about Proxy Media which might come in the future. And sure, if iOS natively support ProRes, I would hope that LumaFusion will support it too.

But the whole support of different codecs is this a big mystery for me. There are apps out there (like Infuse or VLC) that can play all those media without any hick-ups, even though they seems to decode the media on the fly.

Even simple movies file like from a DJI Mavic Pro or the Osmo Action are causing problems with the playback when editing. I have to run "Optimise and Consolidate" a lot. And I'm not starting to talks about the best quality movie files I record with my Fuji X-T3.

Even tough I really like LumaFusion and the way editing with it works, I still think that there are some essentials missing...

So let's cross out fingers, that iOS 15 might bring some surprising new features and performance boosts.

Just my 2 cents....

Carsten
Hi Carsten.

I'm still very new to LumaFusion and am not too familiar yet with a lot of its functions and functionality but so far I'm seriously impressed with what it is and what it does for the platform it's designed for.

You will find with any editing software (NLE) that there will always be something that bugs you. For me personally, my expectations of LumaFusion are tempered by its price and primary platform. I've already come across odd stuff with it but these things don't bother me so much as LumaFusion, for me personally, is already doing stuff that I want. My main NLE on Windows costs over $1000 and it too has problems for my workflow. I've been using NLEs for almost 30 years and I've never found one that's perfect, regardless of cost. So I do understand your frustration.

As for the codec stuff. I'm still waiting on a response from Luma-Touch support to a bunch of my questions. For now though and from experience. I'd guess that anything on iOS that can play certain codecs or recognise certain containers/wrappers that LumaFusion doesn't. Is probably live transcoding on the fly, as you've suggested, or they may indeed have their own codecs. As I've already suggested, LumaFusion may well rely on system codecs, be that hardware or software. Again, the reason I've suggested that is because on MacOS, LumaFusion does edit ProRes and very well.

You also have to remember that something like VLC only has to play single files, LumaFusion or any NLE has to do a lot more than that. I dare say that LumaFusion could probably already play certain files that it doesn't, it most certainly feels like it has the power and capabilities to do that. But if those files couldn't be manipulated, editing, colouring etc. I'd think that could be a more frustrating situation than not seeing them in the first place.

This is why I'm surmising that if iOS becomes natively ProRes compatible, one way or the other, just as MacOS. Then LumaFusion may well support ProRes as a source codec option and maybe even without an update as it may well just tie in to an Apple API.

With regard camera codecs. Many cameras are going to be using H.264 and H.265. I suspect your Fuji will use one or both. These codecs can be packed in to MP4, MOV and a number of other containers/wrappers. They can have all kinds of GOP structures. Most are inter-frame, some are intra-frame. Companies like Sony and Canon modify these codecs further to their own preference, Sony's XAVC as an example and all its variations. Then there's the type of chroma-subsampling used. Bit depth etc. There's also unique issues that can be caused by b-frame structure and placement etc. The variations are quite endless as to what can constitute a H.264 or H.265 video file unless they adhere to some strict guidelines that make it (almost) a global standard, like AVCHD.

The point I'm making with all that is. With so many variations it's really quite difficult for any one NLE to be compatible with every variation of even just H.264 and H.265. As a for instance. LumaFusion will happily play certain files of mine that my $1000 NLE either struggles with or simply can't play. Unfortunately, these things are sometimes just down to the luck of the draw.

Anyway. As you've said, let's hope we see some extra functionality with iOS 15. I suspect that LumaFusion will always be compatible with what the basic Apple camera app on iOS can produce and if that ever becomes ProRes, then happy days. Although, I doubt there'll be much by way of a performance boost per se. I only say that because LumaFusion's performance is already way beyond what I would consider to be reasonably expected for such software on the types of devices it's designed for.

Cheers,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:41 am 
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Thanks Dave

Good well thought out reply

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:46 am 
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Quote:
Thanks Dave

Good well thought out reply
Hi Dave.

This is what happens when you’ve got too much time on your hands because your $1000 NLE software can’t properly utilise QuickSync on Gen 11 Intel and takes forever to export a H.265 video file :)

BTW. I’m just finishing another video. How to add an external HDMI preview monitor for LumaFusion on iPad Pro 2020 and M1. I’ll post it on the forum when it’s done, I think you’ll like that one.

Cheers,
Dave.


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